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In this episode, Elizabeth Stevenson and Sarah Hink from New Direction Family Law discuss the complexities and emotional challenges of separation and divorce. They share practical advice on handling separation, especially in cases of domestic violence, financial complications, and child custody. They also introduce Cam Heinsohn, their new marketing and business development manager. The conversation touches on real-life scenarios, legal strategies, and the emotional toll of ending a marriage, aiming to provide guidance and support for those going through such a difficult time.
00:00 The Hardest Part of Separation
00:58 Introducing the New Podcast Member
02:04 Suddenly Single: Coping with Unexpected Separation
05:43 Handling Separation Conversations
11:39 Navigating Separation: Initial Steps
12:08 Living Arrangements and Legal Implications
13:27 Financial Responsibilities During Separation
15:44 Court Orders and Legal Actions
18:39 Consulting an Attorney: When and Why
20:48 Emotional and Practical Support
21:28 Finding Strength and Moving Forward
Learn more about New Direction Family Law: https://newdirectionfamilylaw.com/contact-us-today/
Learn more about New Direction Family Law: https://newdirectionfamilylaw.com/contact-us-today/
Creators and Guests
What is Ex-it Strategy?
Your no bullsh$t guide to divorce with experienced attorneys from New Direction Family Law and guests and professionals who have been there. Unfiltered discussions to help you move from victim to victorious and from bitter to better.
[00:00:00]
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: The hardest part of getting separated is getting separated.
Yes, it truly is. Nobody separate a domestic. If there's a domestic violence issue, nobody can make you leave. Mm-hmm. I mean, you're, you may be miserable while you stay
Sarah J. Hink: there. You know, everyone's miserable, miserable, and, and the kids are [00:00:15] miserable, miserable. Think about
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: that. They know, you know, and if, if somebody leaves.
Say you're a stay at home parent and the other person leaves and doesn't pay the mortgage. Mm-hmm. Well, you're kind of screwed because I can't make him do that. Yeah. Unless there's a court order or an agreement to do that. So [00:00:30] sometimes I say a lot of times to people, if you feel comfortable staying, if you are safe.
You can stay together and we can work on this while y'all are together. Yeah. Then we can sign this agreement and you can go, or he can go
[00:00:45] Hi everyone, it's Elizabeth [00:01:00] Stevenson with my partner in crime. Sarah
Sarah J. Hink: Hink. Yep. With New New Direction Family Law. Yes. Some attorneys and partners of New Direction Family Law.
And we have an exciting new addition to the podcast. We was so excited. Not just for today, but [00:01:15] ongoing. We, um, had we said goodbye to Jim Bordeaux, she's still out there in the podcast world. Oh. Check her podcast out out there. But she's moved on from the legal sector and we're excited for her. Um, but now we have in a great new addition, our new marketing and business development [00:01:30] manager, Kim Heinsen.
Thank you for joining us. Thank
Cam Heinsohn: you so much for having me. I'm excited
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: too. First one, yeah. Just came up with some great ideas for today,
Sarah J. Hink: I will say. Yeah. We're excited to talk to you about everything and we're excited to have her with us. Yeah. Today and ongoing. So [00:01:45] welcome Cam. Thank you. Rolling with the punches.
Yeah. Yeah. You just
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: gotta jump in whenever you feel the. Feel the urge. Don't worry. I'm here for comic release. Really? That's it.
Sarah J. Hink: She's been told not to lick the microphone. Right. Get close. Get close. But don't lick it, right? Yes. [00:02:00] And all the dirty jokes proceeded after that. Yep. So there we are. Yeah. So our topic today, suddenly,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: suddenly single.
It's so funny. I had somebody just today talk about that and the way they [00:02:15] reacted to it just blew my mind.
Sarah J. Hink: There's, they say there's different reactions to trauma and that's what it is. A trauma. Right. And so he
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: just came home one day and she was gone. And usually you get a big [00:02:30] bunch of emotions about that.
Mm-hmm. As calm as they could be. They'd worked everything out and he was ready to move on. Now how long that'll last? I, yeah. I don't know, but So he came home. She was gone. She was gone. Had no, usually there's something I always ask, [00:02:45] have we talked about separation? You gone to counseling? No, none of that.
We just gotten back from our vacation home and came home and all the stuff Was some indication
Cam Heinsohn: that they Not happy? No.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: Well, I mean, come on. Really? Yeah. There has to be some indication that they weren't.
Sarah J. Hink: Happy. I mean, it [00:03:00] shows a lot about their communication skills, right? That's not true. Just bounce. Like where did they go for vacation?
Hell like,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: but they worked everything out so there's nothing I could really do for 'em. So, you know, they're just maybe just like people can actually work together. Yeah. It's nice.
Sarah J. Hink: Yeah. [00:03:15] Which is surprising in a scenario where someone just left
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: Correct. That they would be able to still talk. Yeah, I know that.
So I like that. And they didn't have kids or anything, so that was a good thing too.
Sarah J. Hink: Yeah. I mean, a lot of times I get, oh, he, you know, blindsided me. And I don't know what I'm gonna [00:03:30] do and he wants to move out and he's still at the house though, and I like, you know, talk more and more about it. But this happened like a year ago and then it happened the year before too, and they never actually moved out and it's just like, feels like it's sudden, but at the same time it's been ongoing for a really long [00:03:45] time.
Right,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: right. But I mean, that's it. And we had had some people, they both came in and signed off on their separation agreement and both of them were in the same room. Crying, you know, not sat, but just like, [00:04:00] oh, when you hand somebody separation agreement, a lot of times it's like, oh shit, this is real. Yeah, we're really gonna do this.
And it was very emotional for them. Or when
Sarah J. Hink: you get the letter, like a lot of times when I have someone come to me and they haven't separated yet, they really haven't had that. Like this is actual happening [00:04:15] IT conversation. Or if they have the other party doesn't listen. Doesn't wanna accept it. Hear it, right?
And you draft the letter that says, Hey, I represent, you know, Molly, and you know, this is what's gonna happen. This is our proposal for the timeline of what we're gonna do with the house. We're gonna [00:04:30] ask for financial documents, participate, please. Otherwise, we're gonna go to court court, but we don't wanna go to court.
We're gonna figure out custody. And you put it all in a letter and you send it to him. Email it over to them and you know, your client's just in there and pins a needle. Like what is their reaction gonna be to this letter? I know. And if you're in the same [00:04:45] house, that's really tough, I will say. Yeah. And to think about what that person feels like when they get that letter, a lot of times it's not good.
And then they'll hire an attorney and the attorney's like, well, they were, you know, a little shocked by the letter they got from you, Sarah. And I'm like, ah, well come on.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: Really? Were they, let's think about it.
Sarah J. Hink: [00:05:00] Right? Like. You should have known, and I usually tell my clients, you know, you, you gotta pull up your pants here and have this conversation with your partner, right?
'cause you married this person. A lot of times they want me to do it. I'm like, I'm not gonna break up with your husband for you. Like I will do [00:05:15] this legal, give you legal advice. I'll write, write this letter, advise them what's gonna happen. But Right. You gotta have that conversation. I'm not gonna go to your house and hold your hand and tell them break the news.
That might be
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: a
Sarah J. Hink: I side hustle.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: What are they called? Um, do [00:05:30] telegram, do looks like separation doula or something. Oh, yeah, that's a good idea. I know I might be my second career. Well, we'll take that out.
Sarah J. Hink: The podcast, that's ticket reserve until we can That's right. We can get that business. Put a copyright
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: on that, please.
I'm kidding. Yeah. All right, so somebody [00:05:45] comes to you and they'll say, I wanna separate. They don't know anything about it. Write this letter. What's your advice on how to go forward with that?
Sarah J. Hink: Would there a conversation with their partner? It depends on some things, you know, especially if there's children involved.
Right? Um, depends on if there's any [00:06:00] incidences of, you know, violence or threats that have been there. Obviously if there's some kind of threat of violence or domestic violence in the household you know, take more precautions right about having that conversation. Maybe having a third party present. Um, and sometimes it's.[00:06:15]
Let's make a plan, let's definitely
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: make a plan in those cases, you know, let's see what's gonna happen. Three months you wanna get out by the end of the school year. Okay. We could do that. We could get you a place we could get you set up and then you can have that conversation. Right? Or, or if you're out I can, yeah, I can step in and, and be your [00:06:30] conversationalist sort of thing for them.
That's,
Sarah J. Hink: that's a whole other like podcast topic. And there might be one in there already about domestic violence and ending those relationships. 'cause that's the most dangerous part. Of that domestic violence relationship is leading. Right, right. Um, but anyone that doesn't have that, it [00:06:45] is to have this conversation, Hey, whatever your feelings are about it, you don't need to go in depth.
I want a separation. I, if we have kids, like let's, you know, not involve the kids in that. Let's work together on how we're gonna tell the kids. Let's maybe talk to a therapist if we have a [00:07:00] therapist mm-hmm. About how to speak to the kids about the separation. What's gonna happen. Um, I'm gonna get an attorney or already have attorney.
I think you should get one too, just to make sure that we're doing this, you know, correctly and dealing with our finances. Right. Working through that together. [00:07:15] Right.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: [00:07:30] [00:07:45] [00:08:00] It's a whole lot better. I always tell my clients. Don't go in and say, this is what we're gonna do. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna keep the house, I'm gonna have the kids.
Primarily, we're gonna [00:08:15] split all our Don't do that. No, because then you already got somebody all pissed off back here and they're not gonna listen to what you say. Yeah. I sort of more say, here's what I've been thinking. Yeah. You know, here's what I think would be best for the kids. What do you think? If you can, if you can open the conversation, I think it's always better for, for [00:08:30] people.
Mm-hmm. But it's also a lot of times what happens, let's figure out how to tell the kids, and then the other person goes and. Yeah. Tells the kids, you know, so you, you just, you never know what the reaction from the other party's gonna be.
Sarah J. Hink: Yeah. And it's really, and I tell my clients and when I [00:08:45] first talk to 'em, like, you know your spouse better than I do.
Right? Right. I don't know. Your spouse. Your spouse. Right. I don't know how they react to certain things. You really gotta. You know, dig down into how to communicate with this person to do, to have this conversation. 'cause if they're very controlling and a narcissist, right, it's
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: gonna be hard. It's
Sarah J. Hink: gonna be hard.
And you just wanna [00:09:00] keep it very simple and limited to the facts and short and sweet and kind of make it seem like they, it's their idea like, Hey, you've seen really unhappy, so why don't we separate?
Cam Heinsohn: They're so many different types, like kinds of relationships out there. Mm-hmm. And [00:09:15] relationship dynamics and yeah.
To your point, like. In theory, you know this person better than you. I always say that you know him better than I do for sure.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: You know, and a lot of times I'll tell my client, you know, I grew up in the South, so I know that if I make it think it's your idea, and at the end I [00:09:30] win. And you just have to sort of swallow.
Swallow it sometime. Mm-hmm. And take it and let them think it's their idea, and then they come around a whole lot. Yeah. Easier or go talk to your therapist, get a counselor, and let them help you make that
Sarah J. Hink: right
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: conversation.
Sarah J. Hink: And so then if your spouse comes to [00:09:45] you and says, Hey Elizabeth, this isn't working.
I went out. I mean that shock. How, how do we. Handle that situation. I think,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: well, I think once they come to us, they've already, it's already, yeah. You know, it's, it's already been done. Whatever happened. How have you responded? There's, there's a text that's [00:10:00] gone out on Facebook. They aware I got some Facebook posts I've made, you know, so Yeah.
It's, so, so it's more of here's what I would advise you to do going forward. Mm-hmm. Don't make any more social media posts mm-hmm. About this. Just don't, um, you can text, but text factually. And if you're [00:10:15] talking about the kids put in what's. Fair best interest, um, and then let me be, you can step back and you can take care of your own mental health and your children and your job.
And my job is to intercede. For you.
Sarah J. Hink: Yeah.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: And help work [00:10:30] this out or you know, sort of reach out to the other side and you can tell you're soon to be ex I, we can't talk about this. It's really emotional for me. If you need to say something, let it go through our attorneys or contact Elizabeth.
Sarah J. Hink: Especially when it comes to finances.
[00:10:45] I mean, I tell people, you know, if you're able to talk about the finances together, that's productive and you feel like you have just as much power over the discussion as the other person, like equal footing. And that's fine. And there are cases where a client will come to you like, Hey, we've, you know, decided on this, [00:11:00] or We've talked about this scenario, and you give them legal advice, shape it up to what is an actual right.
Fair, you know. Decision on the finances, and that's fine, but a lot of cases people get railroaded in the conversation. It's not productive. Right. You know, they don't wanna pay you child support. I'm sure [00:11:15] they don't, but Sure. They don't, they won't pay you alimony.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: I absolutely understand that. No. Yeah. And that's where we step in.
Right. You know, and, and sort of hopefully they have an attorney on the other side and we can work, work things out.
Sarah J. Hink: Yeah. And it's like you guys talk about the kids, the exchanges. Correct. That's it. Right. That's, that's all need to talk about. Okay. Well, [00:11:30]
Cam Heinsohn: when the conversation kind of like goes sideways, right, because obviously.
Usually it's not a very pleasant conversation, especially if one person's kind of coming outta the blue. How does that usually w work like? What's allowed to happen as far [00:11:45] as, you know, I'm like, Hey, I'm not happy. I wanna leave, but really, I want you to leave the house. That's the hardest part.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: The hardest part of getting separated is getting separated.
Yes, it truly is. Nobody separate a domestic. If there's a domestic violence issue, nobody can make [00:12:00] you leave. Mm-hmm. I mean, you're, you may be miserable while you stay
Sarah J. Hink: there. You know, everyone's miserable, miserable, and, and the kids are miserable, miserable. Think about
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: that. They know, you know, and if, if somebody leaves.
Say you're a stay at home parent and the other person leaves and [00:12:15] doesn't pay the mortgage. Mm-hmm. Well, you're kind of screwed because I can't make him do that. Yeah. Unless there's a court order or an agreement to do that. So sometimes I say a lot of times to people, if you feel comfortable staying, if you are safe.
You can stay together and we can work on this while y'all are together. Yeah. Then [00:12:30] we can sign this agreement and you can go, or he can go better and be feel better. Like a perfect
Cam Heinsohn: world situation.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: It works. I mean, a lot of people do that. And then you're guaranteed everybody knows what everybody's supposed to do.
Sarah J. Hink: Right.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: You
Sarah J. Hink: know? And you know what's gonna happen to the house. You know what to expect as far as any support so you [00:12:45] can make better decisions about where you're gonna. Move on to move on. Right. So that is, that is a good situation. But it's not, I mean, think about it, a lot of times at that point people are so sick of each other, they're just, just can't.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: But I've had people, I'm hard, I've working on people that, that we've been at at six, [00:13:00] six months and she's miserable. But he's upstairs and she's downstairs. Yeah. And they can, I said, you can stick this out. We go, we're gonna get there. You know, I like
Sarah J. Hink: the cam wrote some notes for us, questions about these topics.
And one of 'em was, can I make them stay? It's like
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: [00:13:15] false
Sarah J. Hink: imprisonment.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: Like maybe that may have been, well think about this. Why is separation came about? Can I rephrase the question?
Cam Heinsohn: Yeah. So like, um, more along the lines of. If you decide to leave, then I am [00:13:30] going to keep the house. You're abandoning the home.
You have no more rights to it. It's mine now. Yeah.
Sarah J. Hink: That's not how that works. Ron doesn't know how that works, but it gets said a lot. Yeah.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: Yeah. I have a case right now. Abandon abandonment gets thrown around a lot. She is like, he
Sarah J. Hink: says, if I leave that I don't get any of this and [00:13:45] abandonment. I'm like, no, no, no, no.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: That's the best advice I can say is don't listen. Please do not listen to the person who's saying I'm gonna separate from you. Legal advice.
Sarah J. Hink: Yeah. Because zero is correct. Just don't do
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: it. I mean, that's the only thing you can do is all I can say. You [00:14:00] can't
Sarah J. Hink: make them stay and. You know, it's really hard to make him leave.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: Yeah, yeah. Without a court order. Right. And so sometimes, and people ask, well, how do I get him out? Sometimes it's just, you gotta throw some money their way. Mm-hmm. You know, like if I know it's 50 50 if we go to court, but let's [00:14:15] think about this. What's more important? Your mental health, getting him out of the house or paying him $50,000 extra or X amount extra just to get him out.
That is money well spent.
Sarah J. Hink: Yeah.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: And $50,000 you don't have to spend on a trial. Right. You know? So there are all sorts of ways that we can sort of. [00:14:30] Massage things around to make people do the right thing.
Sarah J. Hink: Yeah, there's just a lot of emotion, emotions going on. Emotions. Yeah,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: for sure.
Sarah J. Hink: Yep. Um, I know
Joe: that you have to be separated for a year in North Carolina.
If you are living in the same house, does that count as separated? It does not, sir. [00:14:45] No. Oh, well,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: there's some case law that says if you have a, you can have a separate entrance, like that's a basement
Sarah J. Hink: separate entrance. It's not just that alone, like you have to, you have to put out to the world. It's the world that you're separated.
They're separated. So you can't, like if someone's living in the grandma suite in the, you know, [00:15:00] backyard or whatever, you still have to have those friends. You can't take meals together and go out to parties and stuff together. So, I mean, technically even like share marital expenses, right? But we tell everyone different roofs, you know, might as well make it very clear.
Different roofs, different mailing addresses. [00:15:15] You know, then there's the whole reconciliation thing. That's right. Yeah. That's, people have dabbled into each other during my cases, which makes it difficult sometimes
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: it guess it does. So, so what do you, so, okay, so if this person's gone to me, he wants to leave, I come to [00:15:30] you.
What, what are my, what do I do? I mean, I am at a loss. I have three kids. I have a full-time job. I'm, I'm scared
Sarah J. Hink: to death. What do you tell him? If he wants to leave, the husband wants to leave. Mm-hmm. And the wife's my client. Mm-hmm. Well, if he [00:15:45] wants to leave, he's gonna leave and we should probably go file in court.
Right. I mean, was that, I
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: mean, that's what I would say. Yeah. If he is leaving. You don't wanna wait and try to work this out. Yeah, you can't. You can eventually, 'cause court dates are so backed up, that's
Sarah J. Hink: so, hey, we can still work this out in an [00:16:00] agreement, but we don't wanna have that fail and then be months behind on getting your court date.
Right. So usually gotta work, you know, move pretty fast. Right. And maybe before you file, you send 'em a, a letter. That letter we talked about like, Hey, we need to do this. And if you don't hear within like a week or so. [00:16:15] But a lot of times if they. Our intelligent person that is moving out or whatever, enough to know that they need an attorney, they'll get an attorney maybe at that point.
Right. You know, you can kind of intercept that, but it's really good decision to go ahead and file in those situations. I
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: agree. And it doesn't mean you can't settle, A lot [00:16:30] of times you get a temporary hearing. Mm-hmm. Which is a very limited hour or so. And if you get a good outcome, it's very persuasive to the other party.
Yeah. To say, oh, maybe we ought to try to work this out without the court.
Sarah J. Hink: Right. And just remembering the actions during that [00:16:45] time period matter to the court. Correct. So if he did, does move out and he stops paying the mortgage knowing that his wife and three kids are there, his wife who hasn't worked in 20 years, not gonna look good, that's not gonna look good at all.
Mm-hmm. That's gonna come back, you know, and buy you. Yeah. Really bad. And you'll [00:17:00] have to pay back what you should have supported. And then some, the court will punish people for that. They will. I agree with that.
Cam Heinsohn: Is it smarter to, like if I am the person who has moved out and I, um, am the breadwinner or responsible [00:17:15] for paying the mortgage, do I give the money to my recently separated spouse so that that person can pay household expenses or should I just pay the mortgage like directly?
Sarah J. Hink: Typically, we advise pay the mortgage, mortgage, and then just depending on the. I [00:17:30] run. Yeah. I would,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: if I know incomes i'll, we go child support is by, by guidelines. Mm-hmm. I just plug in numbers and so I always, here's what I think you should be paying as child support. 'cause if you don't, you may have to pay that person's attorney's fees and then you're gonna have a big back arrearage that you're gonna have to, [00:17:45] to pay too.
Sarah J. Hink: Yeah. So the child support number, you can just kind of guess made on as best as you can before you get out at like real numbers. Um, and then for. It's just, it's case by case. But a lot of times for the support, spousal support, yeah. Pay that mortgage, make sure [00:18:00] that's covered if you can, if your support's gonna be that high to cover that mortgage.
But be careful
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: though, you, you know, 'cause you don't wanna walk into court with your client who's been paying $3,500 a month.
Sarah J. Hink: Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: And it's been a struggle. Then he gets ordered to pay that because they, so obviously who [00:18:15] can do it, you've been doing it. So you want him be, if you're the have the pay, or you wanna make sure that he is not paying more than he should.
Yeah. You
Sarah J. Hink: need to know the numbers at least on their side to know if this person can, you know, really support two households like that. Right, right.
Cam Heinsohn: Sounds like a [00:18:30] good attorney knows the nuances. Yeah. There's no case is ever the same. Same. Every case is very different.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: No, I agree with that.
When did I need an attorney?
Sarah J. Hink: If you just got told you need to call one that day or tomorrow, okay. Whatever. It depends on what [00:18:45] the hours are. If you're planning to do the telling and separating, I think it's best to have a plan and speak to attorney before you have that conversation and,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: and speak to an attorney before if he's moving out.
Nothing you can do about the other person, but don't you move out until you talk to an attorney. Right. Is what I would say. 'cause you can do things that I [00:19:00] can't undo. Right. You know, that's very important. Right.
Cam Heinsohn: Working on the, um, like intake side of the firm and like kind of front lines and, um, hearing what comes through.
You know, we get a lot of, I think I might be [00:19:15] ready to have this conversation with my spouse, or I'm not sure, but I've been thinking about it and thinking about it for a long time, and so I'm curious to schedule a consultation and then, you know, we're. Working through the scheduling process and collecting information on our end so [00:19:30] that we can best advise and things like that.
And. Then we get a, okay, well I'm, I'm not, you know, it's, it's a tough decision. I'm sure I'm not totally ready. And then two weeks later we get another phone call because there was a big argument and it just [00:19:45] kind of came out and, um, now they really have to talk to somebody. Yeah. And so it's like a tricky situation because.
All the way up until it actually comes out. It's like, well, I'm not so sure. It seems like for people, and then, you know, and [00:20:00] so they haven't talked to an attorney. So you're saying really, I mean, if you're pretty seriously thinking about it, like it's just information. Yeah.
Sarah J. Hink: That's all. And to me it's, it's really scary.
I mean, if you've been in a relationship for a long time and mm-hmm. Going on on your own, like financially, what's that [00:20:15] gonna look like? All these are are big questions that are scary to even think about if you wanna move forward with separation or not. So having the answers to what it might look like will help make that decision easier.
Right.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: And that's what consultation is. Mm-hmm. Is for, I don't want them to walk out [00:20:30] feeling like I can't, I haven't solved your problem, but you know what your best and worst case scenario is. We've sort of talked about what you need to do and just giving people. Knowledge, like you say. Yeah. It just reduces their, it can reduce their [00:20:45] stress, which helps them be able to focus on doing what they need to do.
Sarah J. Hink: Yeah. Mm-hmm. And there's discernment counselors out there who will work with couples about this decision if they're gonna work together or even just like with one person once out and help making that decision. And that's one part of it is talking to your therapist about it, but having [00:21:00] the attorney side, right, the legal side of what that looks like financially, what it looks like for your children in custody, that's really helpful in that process as well.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: Right. And it does get better. I've had, I got two. You always get sort of, if you've had 'em two or three years, you get really connected to clients. [00:21:15] Mm-hmm. And when they come to you and somebody's told them this, they are a mess. Mm. I mean, just a mess. And then it's like, going to court and just like, I'm, now they're mad.
Now they're mad. Mm-hmm. You know, and they get through that and then they get to [00:21:30] the other side and it's like, oh, this is. Now that I think about it, this is pretty damn good. Yeah. I didn't realize what I was living in. They've been on a
Sarah J. Hink: divorce diet. They're looking great, you know, and they've got the new wardrobe and they're powerful again,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: and they got
Sarah J. Hink: their
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: strength back and [00:21:45] happy.
Yeah. So, you know, there is, there is a, there is another side. Yeah. Right, right. So it just takes a little time to get there and that's what we're for, is to help you go through that process. Yeah.
Cam Heinsohn: Yeah. I can't remember who I heard this from or you know, where it came from, but, [00:22:00] bad marriage can be hard, and divorce can be hard.
Mm-hmm. So you just choose your heart. That's right. That's exactly right. True. Yeah, that's exactly
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: right. It's like. Going back to, you know, people who are in a, um, abusive relationship, they don't realize it because [00:22:15] it's their norm, right? So if you're, if you're in a bad marriage and somebody, you know, you're doing all the work and they're blah, blah, blah, blah, you don't know it because that's just what you're used to.
And then you see, oh, there is another side, there is more out
Sarah J. Hink: there. Their heart breaks. When I tell clients, when they're explaining their relationship to me [00:22:30] and what the other person might say to them, and I'm like, that's not normal,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: right? That's not
Sarah J. Hink: okay. And then you see
Elizabeth A. Stephenson, MSW: them, you see this light go off and they.
Oh, you're, you're right. You know? Yeah. So I think, you know, we're not counselors, but, but I, you know, attorney and counselor at law, I [00:22:45] think we can help people sort of realize, oh, my life can be better. And then let me go see a professional that can help me. Right. Do that side of it and I'll let Sarah and Elizabeth do the legal side of it.
Sarah J. Hink: Right. And get you to the other side. Right. Exactly. Yep. Mm-hmm. Get [00:23:00] that some shit.
[00:23:15]